PETA at it again

[windwalker_au]

I wish PETA would go fall down a 3 mile deep mine shaft never to be seen or herd  of again I really hate these insipid vegan dip sticks with every part of my being all they are trying to do is force there way of life on every one else. end of rant.
Bernie


Military rejects animal death concerns


1:58pm August 17, 2013





The killing of animals to make Australian Defence Force medicos battle-ready is a breach of national health guidelines, says a welfare group.


In a letter to Defence Minister Stephen Smith, PETA (People For The Ethical Treatment Of Animals) says it is "of grave concern" that Australia's military has failed to adopt synthetic models that could save thousands of pigs, which are used in trauma training before being killed.

But a Defence spokesman said the force's practice complied with current regulation and had been used in military and civilian training for many decades.

"These courses are considered essential to adequately prepare medical officers to deploy on ADF operations," the spokesman told AAP in a statement.

PETA claims Defence is not following guidelines published by Australia's National Health and Medical Research Council by using live animals, and that research has found a simulated model provides outcomes superior to animal-based training.

Defence does not agree.

"Based upon the best scientific advice available, there remains a small number of circumstances where training of those who save the lives of critically-injured service personnel is best achieved through live tissue trauma training," the spokesman said.

"This training essentially concentrates on the first hour of emergency care post-event."

He added that the force has "reduced to the absolute minimum" the use of animals for medical training, and aims for further reductions.

PETA says "more modern" training technology has been adopted by the majority of NATO countries.


http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/08/17/14/01/military-rejects-animal-death-concerns

[mongrel]

It's not stated in so many exact words, but I get the distinct impression that the pigs aren't killed outright -- they're injured, so that the training can be done on a living creature that is wounded and frightened. Like an injured soldier would be.

I also know it to be a fact, that human beings have been inflicting roughly the same sorts of wounds upon one another, and treating those wounds, for tens of thousands of years. It might be possible that this, that, or the other technique could be further perfected, but basically we've had lots of practice, on our fellow humans, inflicting and treating wounds. We're pretty good at both.

So though it surprises me to find myself saying this -- on this one point, on no other but on this one -- I agree with PETA.

To clarify: If the entire membership of this site were injured and traumatized, and a deer were brought to me with the understanding that all I had to do was inflict serious injury on it, let it suffer for an hour or several hours while EMT's practiced various medical techniques on it, and then finally kill it if it didn't die of shock and blood loss first -- and in return everybody here is restored to full health -- you people are history. If it's a matter of money, or me having to give of my time and sweat, or prayer -- that I will do for you. Inflict suffering on another living thing as a trade-off for a human life? No. Hell, no.

It isn't that I think so highly of animals, it's that I really, honestly, do think that little of the vast majority of people, and when push comes to shove in a situation like this one Windwalker describes -- my give-a-damn's been broken for a long, long time.

[Dogshirt]

10-4 on what Mike said.

[Red Badger]

It's not stated in so many exact words, but I get the distinct impression that the pigs aren't killed outright -- they're injured, so that the training can be done on a living creature that is wounded and frightened. Like an injured soldier would be.

I also know it to be a fact, that human beings have been inflicting roughly the same sorts of wounds upon one another, and treating those wounds, for tens of thousands of years. It might be possible that this, that, or the other technique could be further perfected, but basically we've had lots of practice, on our fellow humans, inflicting and treating wounds. We're pretty good at both.

So though it surprises me to find myself saying this -- on this one point, on no other but on this one -- I agree with PETA...

I also have to agree - the deliberate wounding of an animal for training is not acceptable - The medico's should be sent to big city areas and ride with first responders to get that kind of practice...   

Rule #1 if your gonna pull the trigger make sure your target does not suffer.

[mongrel]

The idea of riding with first responders makes sense in another, crucial way -- not only would the medics be applying their training and technique to humans, who are actually in desperate need of it, but they'd be doing so in circumstances that are liable to be completely chaotic, uncontrolled, and potentially deadly -- as combat circumstances will be.

+1 on that idea from my neck of the woods.

[William]

I've written several paragraphs in response to this thread but as Dennis originally set up this forum with rules against political topics and discussion I have chosen not to post it publically. 

[old salt]

I may agree in small way about the treatment of hogs, may be bad looking on the service. Untill you have walkede across a fieled that is someone lively hood, and see what will dild hogs can do. I would personly rather shoot and leave them lay.
Ao far I have managged to make 16 clean kills, but if I only wound one I will  not go into the brush after it.As for the members of PETA untill the stop eating meat them selves and quit wearing leather shoes, they can keep their mouth shut and stay away form me.
Jim if you think this will affend some you may delete thisbut this is my rant.
Harry

[mongrel]

Killing is one thing. I kill for meat. I've killed as part of pest control (coyotes, jackrabbits, groundhogs and gophers, crows, etc). PETA would condemn me right along with anyone and everyone else who somehow offends their delicate sensibilities, and overall -- like I said, except on this one single point -- they're full of it and should be treated as such. But one thing that has led to much trouble and decline in this country is the tendency of almost everyone to base whether they accept or reject a point of view on who it comes from. In this one isolated case I think PETA is right. I don't feel the need to like or accept their overall agenda to be able to believe that.

That's my thinking. There will be disagreement with that thinking, which is fine -- this is a forum for discussion, not a forum for me or anyone else to be telling others what they have to believe.

A point that hasn't been brought up, which I'm bringing up now in an effort to be as fair as I can be about this -- I have never been in the military, certainly never been in combat. I'm rock-solid in my belief that for my own sake I would never permit what seems to me to be the torture of an animal, with the intent of easing my own pain and suffering or even to save my own life, but as far as the lack of concern about human suffering that I expressed earlier -- maybe if I'd been in the military, served with good men and watched them suffer and die, I might have a different perspective. It's possible, but I don't know. The experience and perspective I do have, unfortunately, makes it impossible that I ever will know.

[windwalker_au]

guys this is a typical media beat up the pigs are heavily anesthetized so they feel no pain I now this for a fact I have seen it done, they the media have not quoted  the army word for word but have for PETA as I said typical media beat up with anything to do with firearms.
Bernie

[mongrel]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.