Some .58 Ball Velocity Data

[Semisane]

Hi Guys.  I've been doing a lot of reading on the forum, but not much posting.  Thought I ought to change that.  So here goes.

I hope this one is interesting.

Back on June 5th. I shot a bunch of 5-shot groups to gather velocity data for my .58 Green Mountain barreled TC Hawken. For consistency, I used weighed loads that were the equivalent of 105 grains volume in my TC U-View powder measure. I shot GOEX FFg, GOEX FFFg, Jim Shockey Gold FFG, Triple Seven FFG, Pyrodex Select RS, and Pyrodex P.

Here's the gun.



Here's the data chart.




And here are the targets.













The Pyrodex P absolutely DESTROYED the patches. I found one wrapped around one of the wire shooting guides on the chrono. All that was left to it was a wad of threads. That accounts for the total loss of accuracy and wide variance in velocities. However, I'm pretty sure that on the third shot on that target I failed to seat the ball after short starting it. (Got distracted swatting flies and wiping sweat.) Fortunately, it did the barrel no harm.

I was quite surprised to see how close the velocities were between GOEX and T7 in this barrel/caliber/load volume.

[Muler44]

Interesting to see hard numbers there.  Thanks for posting!!

[Red Badger]

Well written and executed study thank you !

[flintboomer]

Interesting data. I have a GM 58 barrel for my TC Renegade and it will shoot a ragged hole at 25 yds with 60 gr Shuetzen powder and it seemed to like 90 gr at 100 yds but I ran out of daylight before I could finish testing last weekend.

[William]

I see that Jim Schlocky's gold powder gave miserable velocity.  Anyone ever read what he claims his powder can do?

Good data, I enjoyed reading your results.

[flintboomer]

Shockey never claims JSG is fast and I have seen other data verifying how slow it is compared to black or other substitute powders. I think its biggest claim to fame is that you don't need to lube your bullets and that cleanup is easy. Both are true but the velocity is a real problem to me.
I have been told that it can be more accurate with a bigger bore (.54 or larger) than other powders but I never tried to verify that claim.

[William]

Actually I think Schlocky claims to have shot 100 rounds without cleaning or even wiping in between (), and I'd be interested to see the inside of the barrel after a few dozen un-lubed conicals.
If one powder is a little slower than the others when using the same amount, that's one thing, but over 400 fps is miserable in my book.

[Semisane]

but over 400 fps is miserable in my book.

And you get to pay a premium price for the 400 fps reduction William.      

[William]

but over 400 fps is miserable in my book.

And you get to pay a premium price for the 400 fps reduction William.      

But the plastic bottle it comes in is sooo pretty.....

[flintboomer]

JSG is supposed to be more consistant than AP and self lubing but it is just the old Cleanshot/American Pioneer powder. It leaves behind a white residue that is supposed to act as a lubricant and maybe it does, but it interacts with oils and leaves behind a hard tarlike substance that is difficult to remove. I tried it and I don't like it.

[DandJofAZ]

JSG is supposed to be more consistant than AP and self lubing but it is just the old Cleanshot/American Pioneer powder. It leaves behind a white residue that is supposed to act as a lubricant and maybe it does, but it interacts with oils and leaves behind a hard tarlike substance that is difficult to remove. I tried it and I don't like it.

Used it with spit patches (no oils) and it worked ok..my old 58 still liked real bp at 100gr/ff for best group at 100yrds .,round ball only, wouldn't pattern conicals/sabots in less than twice the size group....1in70 twist....
Doug

[alsask]

I have found Pyrodex burns through my patches.  If I use an overpowder wad made from 1/2 square of toilet paper the patches, when found, are in good enough shape to be used again.

[Smokin_Gun]

I really like the tests you preformed ... xlints pics to go with it.
But you kinda answered the question I'm asking. Bein' from the old school of patched ball muzzleloading I learned that you equate yur load otr volume of Black Powder and a patched ball to how the patch comes out of the barrel. That is just as important for accuracy if not it tell most important info.
A burnt thru patch means blowby on the muzzle pressure to one side or the other.
During this rifle type period the Military and standard load was 60gr-70gr  of Black Powder would do it and accurate kill shots at 300 yards. The patch is the gas check of a lead .38spl only it' a greased cotton patch.
If  you'd enjoy trying that test again I'd love to see it with a 60-70gr charge or one that doesn't burn the patches.
I feel the Rifle for 80 -100gr with a Maxi Ball with BP or the [DELETED] which I'm not a shooter of being traditonal.
Good post and nice to meet you...
SG

[Hanshi]

This test was so good that I think it would be great if everyone who has a chronograph would measure the vel of various caliber guns.  The comparison would be enlightening.  I own an Oehler I haven't used in a while.