Buckshot and bird shot,

[bluefishjim]

I am working up a turkey load for my 12ga sxs double barrel shotgun, I get great patterns with 4 shot, but am wondering what kind of killing force I'll get and distance. I can get great distance with #4 buck shot, can these be stacked and shot at the same time, and would I load the birdshot under or on top of buckshot?
James

[flintboomer]

You don't really need the buckshot, the #4s will do the job, but if you decide to try it put the buckshot on top because it doesn't lose energy as fast as the #4s.

Shot size here and many other places can legally be no larger than #6. It will do the job and has for many through the years.

[bluefishjim]

I have read in a blog sometime ago, sorry I can't remember the blog, but it talked about "knock down" ability.  The blog mentioned that by using small buck shot the effectiveness of your shot column would be increased. Unfortunately I can't remember if the buck shot went in first or on top, using the buck makes sense to me as my shotgun is not using tight chokes,  cycl and imcycl, I do my best to get the bird into 20yrds, the buckshot will be more effective farther out, even with hitting him with only five pellets. I'm using 80gr of pyrodex as this doesn't blow holes in the pattern, adding the buck should give me the assurance of quicker kills, one of my worries is one of the shot getting "stuck" from being pushed from behind. Thanks for your response, guess its time to hit the range and see how this works.
James

[Patocazador]

What chokes does your shotgun have?
Full choke is the best choke for turkeys and is effective to 50 yards. # 4, 5, and 6 shot is the most effective. Aim for the head/neck area and an effective pattern will kill it. The smaller the shot, the denser the pattern. The smaller shot is less effective at longer ranges.

I use #5 shot and don't shoot farther than 35 yards with my 12 ga. SxS guns but I have cylinder bores. If it had a full choke, it would be effective to 50 yds.

It is illegal to use shot larger than #2 for Spring turkeys in Florida. Check your regs.

According to the principles of Physics, the larger projectiles have more mass and momentum and should be loaded last to avoid blasting your pattern all to heck.

[bluefishjim]

My shotgun has an improved choke on one side and cylinder bore for the other, in your 12ga, what are you using for your powder, how many grains. Seems in mine anything over 85 widens my pattern to the point that past ten yds. the pattern sucks wind. This is why I am thinking of using buckshot as the buck will carry more energy. I haven't been using a cushioning wad, and was told to stay with 80gr but use 90gr(by measure) of shot, I'm using no. 4 shot, in your option will this load work for a quick kill out to 30yds?

[Patocazador]

Try using regular 12 ga. plastic shot cups for your load. I use the unsplit 3" ones from Ballistic Products. Then I cut 2 or 3 slits depending on my pattern. You can make it act like a full choke with no slits.  http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Field-wads/products/87/

Also you can try a larger powder size. 80 gr. of 2FG does well for me but 85 gr. of 1FG works well too. If you use the thick lubed cushion wads, cut them in half or thirds and it won't leave you with a "hole" on the center of your pattern. (Less mass to blast through the pattern so it lags behind.)

"Less powder, More lead
Shoots far, Kills dead"

[Red Badger]

Try using regular 12 ga. plastic shot cups for your load. I use the unsplit 3" ones from Ballistic Products. Then I cut 2 or 3 slits depending on my pattern. You can make it act like a full choke with no slits.  http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Field-wads/products/87/

Also you can try a larger powder size. 80 gr. of 2FG does well for me but 85 gr. of 1FG works well too. If you use the thick lubed cushion wads, cut them in half or thirds and it won't leave you with a "hole" on the center of your pattern. (Less mass to blast through the pattern so it lags behind.)

"Less powder, More lead
Shoots far, Kills dead"

Just out of curiosity -  If this were limited to a PURELY historically correct discussion what would your suggestion be for the shot charge.... I understand we would not be discussing Pyrodex at all.. but the conversation interests me for my 1839 Hotchkins side by side.... 

[bluefishjim]

As to hunting turkeys I believe rifles were used until fairly recently, no I don't know when this changed.  Shotguns would have been mostly used for wing shooting less robust birds and small game. So if I was working up a load in the time before pyrodex most people would be starting with a powder to shot charge of the same volume. I would guess people would still work a load for their gun and use.

[Patocazador]

Try using regular 12 ga. plastic shot cups for your load. I use the unsplit 3" ones from Ballistic Products. Then I cut 2 or 3 slits depending on my pattern. You can make it act like a full choke with no slits.  http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Field-wads/products/87/

Also you can try a larger powder size. 80 gr. of 2FG does well for me but 85 gr. of 1FG works well too. If you use the thick lubed cushion wads, cut them in half or thirds and it won't leave you with a "hole" on the center of your pattern. (Less mass to blast through the pattern so it lags behind.)

"Less powder, More lead
Shoots far, Kills dead"

Just out of curiosity -  If this were limited to a PURELY historically correct discussion what would your suggestion be for the shot charge.... I understand we would not be discussing Pyrodex at all.. but the conversation interests me for my 1839 Hotchkins side by side....

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My turkey load with cylinder bore is 80 gr. 2F, 1 3/8 oz. of #5 shot, OP pressure wad, 1/3 thickness of a lubed cushion wad topped by 2 OS cards. I would not not try for a turkey beyond 30 yds. with this load unless I had a mod. or full choke. This load kicks pretty good.
You could make a thick paper shot cup to hold the shot. This might tighten up the pattern.

[bluefishjim]

The issue I was trying to solve, if I even had an issue, was killing a turkey quickly, when using no. 6 shot with 80 gr of powder I am getting great patterns loading one for one shot to powder, using just no. 4 shot and using 80 gr powder with a one and a half amount of shot the pattern is great. Using a paper shot cup is an option I have read about but not tried yet, getting more pellets into the bird would help with knock down. I appreciate the responses and have some testing to do.