Set trigger questions ??

[Razor]

Would someone be so kind as to explain to this 'nub'.. 
the difference between --SINGLE SET TRIGGER -- and -- DOUBLE SET TRIGGER --   

Thanks   

[old salt]

A single set trigger is one trigger and is usually set by pushing the trigger
forward to set for hair trigger and double set has two triggers and is set by pulling the rear trigger to the rear to set the front trigger for hair trigger.

Now this brinngs us to terms of single phase and double phase triggers.

Single phase means that you have to set the trigger to fire the weapon, and double phase means that you can fire the weapon with the ttriggers set or unset

Hope this helps

[Wyoming Mike]

You covered it pretty well Old Salt.  The only other variation is the T/C Patriot trigger where the front trigger is the set and the rear is the release.  Don't know who came up with that aggravation but they should be slapped.   

[old salt]

  and the some

[Razor]

thanks OS...It's clear now   

[mongrel]

Speaking as a gunbuilder who has been confronted with that look of innocent, absolute determination in the eyes of a customer who has no idea what he's asking for, and wants a single-set trigger because he's decided (or more likely has been told by Bear Phil or Ol' Griz Denny -- the know-it-all in every gun club or BP gathering who doesn't actually build guns himself but is the last word in expertise on every point of doing so, especially when he disagrees with an actual gunsmith's knowledge -- which is always) it's the best combination of single-trigger cleanness of lines and set-trigger lightness of pull -- every single-set I'm aware of shares the defect of requiring an extremely tall breech area of the stock, in order for it to fit beneath the sear arm of the lock with sufficient clearance to function properly. There is no building a slim, graceful fullstocked rifle using one of them. With one low-budget exception they are NOT simple mechanisms. Nor are they cheap.

In comparison to single triggers my feelings about double-sets range from tolerance to mild dislike. I actually loathe single-sets, to the point I won't install one on a gun.

I comment on this because the question comes up, now and then, usually from a newbie who thinks the single-set concept is just so gosh-whiz neat. I suppose it is but in practice, IMHO, it's a mangy fleabag she-dog to actually put into use.

[ChrisHarris]

You covered it pretty well Old Salt.  The only other variation is the T/C Patriot trigger where the front trigger is the set and the rear is the release.  Don't know who came up with that aggravation but they should be slapped.   

I own 2 of those pistols and I hate that trigger setup.  It's friggin' STUPID! 

[flintboomer]

That backwards Patriot trigger may be why they stopped making them and are definitely a nuisance to me, and the only single sets I have used were easier to use without setting the trigger, so they would have been a waste of money if they were mine.

I do like my double set triggers, but a well tuned lock works fine with only a single trigger. I will hunt with either, but hunt with the triggers set and the hammer down if I am carrying the old TC Renegade that I usually hunt with.

[BruceB]

Strictly my opinion mind you...... A simple single trigger installed properly will give you a better actual pull and let off than any set triggers. I've had guys shoot one of my guns and remark how nice the trigger action is. Until I tell them its installed with a finish nail... then I usually have to remove the lock and show them. Set triggers can be fine, and look great and be period correct/historically correct, but a well installed single trigger is a wonderful (and simple) thing!!!!!

[mongrel]

It's all in the geometry of how (where, actually) the trigger is pinned and its relationship to the sear arm of the lock. Most set triggers are set up in such a way that their geometry for being fired unset ranges from awful to just adequate. In fairness, though, quite a few commercially-done single-trigger assemblies are also fairly poor in terms of geometry. A few, especially on older, cheaper guns such as the early CVA and similar models, were flat-out terrible. However, when you factor in the added complication of any form of set trigger mechanism, the potential for things to just be awful goes way up. I've seen more than a few of the things that plain won't work as they and the lock are assembled into the stock -- usually on kit guns, which is almost criminal considering that most kit assemblers aren't gunsmiths and will have no way of knowing what's wrong or how to fix it.

[Rev]

Speaking as a gunbuilder who has been confronted with that look of innocent, absolute determination in the eyes of a customer who has no idea what he's asking for, and wants a single-set trigger because he's decided (or more likely has been told by Bear Phil or Ol' Griz Denny -- the know-it-all in every gun club or BP gathering who doesn't actually build guns himself but is the last word in expertise on every point of doing so, especially when he disagrees with an actual gunsmith's knowledge -- which is always) it's the best combination of single-trigger cleanness of lines and set-trigger lightness of pull -- every single-set I'm aware of shares the defect of requiring an extremely tall breech area of the stock, in order for it to fit beneath the sear arm of the lock with sufficient clearance to function properly. There is no building a slim, graceful fullstocked rifle using one of them. With one low-budget exception they are NOT simple mechanisms. Nor are they cheap.

In comparison to single triggers my feelings about double-sets range from tolerance to mild dislike. I actually loathe single-sets, to the point I won't install one on a gun.

I comment on this because the question comes up, now and then, usually from a newbie who thinks the single-set concept is just so gosh-whiz neat. I suppose it is but in practice, IMHO, it's a mangy fleabag she-dog to actually put into use.

I don't usually disagree with Mongrel, & I guess technically I still don't, because he is talking about rifles. I have two Le Page pistols with single set triggers & I love them. I also have a box full of medals to prove how well they work. I tried the Patriot, various CVA's, Traditions (can't remember the name, hated the gun, maybe trapper?) & a T/C that looked like a six gun as well as others. None shot as well as the Le Page. (One of my failures, the Traditions, was actually thrown in a fire pit in disgust after a 16 shot trail walk with a perfect 0 for 16 score...)
Did I mention I was (key word = was...) a Combat Hand gun shooter? We can be picky about our pistols...
I shot the same trail walk the following year with the Le Page, 16 for 16...

[flintboomer]

The LePage is one fine but expensive pistol and the one that I occasionally borrow is a tack driver. I have learned not to bother setting the trigger on that one, its trigger does not need any improvement. It is already light and smooth as glass.

[mongrel]

My objection to the single-set on a rifle is the difficulty of using one on a gun of slender proportions. I know they were used on the Browning Mountain Rifle, but you're dealing with totally different proportions on a Hawken/plains rifle, than on a longrifle.

I don't believe I faulted their effectiveness, either, assuming they can be set up to work properly. Nor do I question or fault the effectiveness of double-set triggers, if a shooter's preferred discipline makes a hair trigger desireable. As I've stated on a number of previous occasions, the extent of my interest in accuracy centers on the roughly pie-plate-sized kill zone of a whitetailed deer, generally shot at in the woods (therefore at close range). For a customer, on request, I will install double-set triggers, making a point to advise against them if the rifle is for a beginner but ultimately bowing to the customer's wishes. I have what I consider perfectly good reasons for not wanting to fool with the single-sets, and I won't, but it has nothing to do with considering them poor mechanisms. They're just a poor design for what I do, is all.

[Blackfeet]

I have a Patriot that is a pain when shooting other set trigger rifles at the same time. You have to be very conscious of what you are doing wnen you go back to the rifle

On the other hand, Rev, it is extremely accurate with the nine inch .36 cal Rayl 1-48" rifle barrel drop go figure.